Okay so my mum called yesterday to say that the nice lady curate had just been to see my dad and was shocked and horrified (not the poker-faced type of curate then!). Furthermore, the curate had said that she was on a placement for two months and didn't expect dad to still be alive when she returned (tell it as it is type of curate - I like her!).
So I mused that perhaps I should try and see him sooner rather than later and my mum replied that he sleeps 23 hours a day so she isn't sure what the point is, but if I do come and see him do not bring the kids because he is ghastly looking and dreadfully gaunt.
At this point I decided I definitely need to see my dad soon - and I will go on Saturday - Alan and I will do the driving between us, but seeing as we are pathetically poorly we'll stop at every coffee shop and cafe on the way - which suits me - I love stopping at these establishments!
I don't know what to say to my kids though. I feel quite relieved mum has told me not to bring them, although I wonder whether this is a cop out.
Have you lot experienced this? Do you have any advice???
26 comments:
You might consider presenting the case to your kids and at least giving them a chance to be involved in the decision. On the one hand, they would get a chance to say goodbye to Grandad but might find it traumatic, on the other they can remember Grandad the way he was, but may not have the chance to say goodbye.
Before doing that though, you may want to see what their Dad thinks of that idea.
I have no particularly relevant experience on this, but I was a kid once . . . a very long time ago.
Difficult one. I was kept out of my granddad's death during the latter stages, and it seemed plausible to me as a kid from what I can remember. The images I have of him are nice ones. Maybe this is a good approach. But, at the end of the day I have no idea about your family relationships. We are all different.
What age are they?
They are 13, 12 and 10...
I'm in a very similar situation at the moment (although at least I'm well.) Dad is in hospital and may well not come home again. I let the boys make their own decision the oldest has been in, the youngest decided he would rather remember him as he was but as you know they are a bit older than your boys. I think your boys are old enough to understand the situation but you know them best and need to decide if they are mature enough to handle seeing your Dad so ill. Is it practical for them to just have a very brief visit and then retire to another room or sit in the car if they find it difficult? I'll pray for you and your Mum as I'm sure she'll be needing lots of support like my Mum is at the moment.
With love
Valerie
Really very sorry to hear that Valerie. Yes, I'll pray for you and yours too.
Involve all three of them completely. Any trauma will be slight and will be far outweighed by the benefit of knowing, especially when they are older, that they were there for their grandfather and "did the right thing." Your children will not blame you for nay sadness, but they might blame you later on for keeping them away from their grandfather so they could not say their goodbyes. Basically, remember that children become adults and they take their childhood memories within them throughout their lives.
Malcolm's suggestion about involving their father is probably a good one.
If it was me in your position, I would talk to the boys about it and let each of them make their own minds up. At least then thay won't later feel that you arbitrarily took the decision out of their hands. I know someone who lost their mother when they were 8 years old and were not allowed to attend the funeral. They have regretted it ever since.
I know someone who lost their mother when they were 8 years old and were not allowed to attend the funeral. They have regretted it ever since.
This should be your main concern.
Although people are usually dead by the time I turn up, I always encourage children of all ages to be taken to funerals. I have never been told by the families that this was a bad idea. I even get kids involved in the liturgy if they want to. It is only western culture that hides children from death rites.
I agree with much of the above, I think its really important to let them decide. Is he at home? could they chose to be with your mum if they decide at the last minute not to see him. BUT... do prepare them, even show them pics of someone very ill, just so they are aware of what he will be like.
Slightly different but I was not allowed to go to one of my Nans funerals and even now I resent that! (I was about 7 I think)
Will pray for you this weekend..
x
ok thanks all - I'll talk to them tonight. And thanks MP for putting me on your prayer list.
To be honest I don't expect to be there when he dies, never mind the kids... We live quite a distance away and he seems to be gradually fading away, but he has been ill for the last two years, and I don't really imagine that there will be an obvious moment when he is just about to die.... not that I know much about death.
Talking about bad funeral experiences. My worst was when a young woman died who had two kids exactly the same ages as my two youngest.. and the ex-husband wouldn't let the kids go to their mother's funeral because he was mad with her and with her new man. Broke my heart, taking that service.
I've discovered I can post anyonymously while Blogger won't let me post under my Google Account.
We were kept even kept away from my granddad’s funeral and I was 14 at the time! I still regret that. You did, in those days, people though it would protect the children from death and help them cope better if “granddad had just gone to heaven”.
My friend is a bereavement counsellor at a hospice and she always tries to work towards children being allowed to see a dying person. Older people want to protect them, but science seems to show that it facilitates grieving and that they cope better in the long term if they’ve been allowed to say goodbye properly.
My husband was very surprised when our girls told him in no uncertain terms that they’d never forgive him if he didn’t take them to say good-bye to their granddad. They were 11 and 13 at the time. I can’t tell you more, though, because he didn’t actually die at that time.
If it were my own children, I would actively encourage them to be there. My brother couldn’t face saying good-bye to my mother and 17 years later it still haunts him, he feels he’s let her down and he has never quite got over it.
Maybe you could ask your mother why she doesn’t want them to be there, and I think you should certainly talk to your sons about it.
Erika
I love it when we all gang up on Lesley and tell her what to do. It's like a non-compulsory Anglican Covenant. We are joined together in unity and common accord.
That'll learn her to ask for our opinions, won't it! :-)
Erika
I would agree with what others have said about involving the boys in the decision and encouraging them to see your father, even if only briefly, if they can cope. All the research I read when I did a dissertation on children death and bereavement says children are more likely to be harmed by being excluded than included. They will need to have someone to talk through their feelings with , someone who is less emotionally involved than you are. Do you have someone they trust who could do that?
I guess their dad is less emotionally involved...
I've chatted to them and they all want to see him, so their dad will take them on Saturday or Sunday, when I'm there too... I couldn't cope with looking after them and driving and seeing my dad and having glandular fever all at the same time...
I must say, last time I saw him, I couldn't work out if it was really him or not - he looked so different.. even after he said my name I wasn't sure... Wonder what the kids will make of it.
My suggestion to involve your boys' Dad was less about his greater or lesser emotional involvement with your Dad, than about his role as your boys' Dad. If you are setting out the prospect that the boys might choose to do something that would be (at least for a time) emotionally traumatic, I think their Dad has a right to be part of that conversation as their Dad.
Jonathan, I think that this was less "Anglican Covenant" than "Lambeth Resolution properly understood." We gave her our prayerful view and left her to discern her own course of action.
What?!!! Are you saying she might disagree with us?
Typical woman! they never do as they are told.
LOL - it is good to have friends - and friends tell you that a spade is a ****ing shovel from time to time.
Malcolm I'd already told their dad when I heard from my mum - we talk lots and get on well..
Lesley,
I think the point about someone less emotionally involved is not that they should be less involved with your father but also less involved with your boys.
Children feel acutely guilty about not conforming to their parents' expectations, or about having to be totally open about themselves etc.
When my older girl had leukaemia the younger one needed therapy precisely because I was involved and part of the problem. I was too close to her, had too much invested in her emotional wellbeing, was willing her to cope and to heal.
What she really needed was an external friend or therapist who could focus on her only, without any expectations, without feeling personally affected by her emotions.
Is there someone else close but not too close your boys could access if necessary? Someone they could be absolutely honest with without it feeding back to you or their Dad?
Someone who knows enough about psychology and about grieving not to force them into a supposed pattern of grief and who really only wants them to recover?
Erika
I need regular therapy just because Erika comments on my blog occasionally. You may need to get similar help, Lesley. Look out for the signs. With me it started with uncontrolled shaking and foaming at the mouth :-)
MP
This disturbing reaction is a main factor in my commenting on your blog only “occasionally”.
Lesley might take your advice, or she might be made of sterner stuff (being a girl and all that…)
Erika
Speaking from a bit of experience, I'd say that the children probably should see their grandfather. I have a 9 year old, and a father who is in end-stage Alzheimers. Every time we see him, there is less Dad there (if you understand my meaning). Is it hard for her? Yes, certainly, but she is wonderful to him and to the other patients at the nursing home, and she is coming to an understanding about what happens as people decline, and eventually die. Just make sure that they're prepared, and know what to expect when they do see him.
(By the way, I'm Maggie, and I followed a link from OCIBW over here.)
@Erika - no I don't think my boys do at the moment... strange how isolated we are in a way. I think the divorce and also the job I do has an impact on that.. because the community is my 'job' I want to withdraw in my time off and in my family time and so community and family are more separate than is ideal. Something to think about in the next post.
@MP what are you on about? Are you still taking the tablets? ;)
@Maggie - welcome. That is helpful advice, thank-you. Sorry about your dad... :( My Gran had horrible Alzheimers and I found it very distressing.. she became violent and even ripped out a man's catheter on one occasion!!
[apologies for the delay - for some reason I've been unable to login until now]
Don't worry; good will come of it, whatever you decide. The really important bit - helping your children come to terms with their grief - comes after your loved one has passed away.
Here's a few words of personal testimony (skip if you're busy):
I was very close to my Auntie Win (mum's sister Winifred, though I never recall anyone calling her anything other than Winnie or Win), who suffered a great deal of pain prior to dying of cancer when I was 12 years old. Pain relief back in the 1960's was very primitive, when compared with current practice, and I was never allowed to visit her in hospital, despite my repeated requests.
In the end, she came to visit me. Yes, I know that sounds silly but, for me, it's true. I have almost complete recall of waking up in the small hours to see her standing at the foot of my bed and saying goodbye. As I sat there, now wide-awake, staring at the place where she had stood, the telephone began to ring. It was the hospital, calling with the sad news that Auntie Win had gone.
I still remember the shocked look on Dad's face when he walked slowly into my room a few moments later. I said something like "it's all right, Dad. Auntie Win's already been to say goodbye" and then mum came in and we spent a long while talking about happy memories of a loving sister and aunt, who chose to get married in a registry office so as not to upset my mum, who (you may recall) had to.
Looking back, the most important thing wasn't the fact that I hadn't been to visit my auntie. It was the gentle, unforced, sharing of happy memories within the close family circle, as our minds started to come to terms with what had happened.
Gosh - that is an amazing story! She does sound like a lovely Auntie - really touched that she married in a registry office - that is love for you!
Post a Comment