Hello.
This blog that I love very much is now an ex-blog... sort-of... it continues over at revdlesley.net. Please do come and join the conversation there.
Lesley x
Tuesday, 20 July 2010
Homosexuality when it isn't natural?
I went to university in Salford and lived in the precinct, which consisted of a slab of concrete that was a couple of miles square with concrete flats protruding from it. My flat was leaning at a rather jaunty angle which had caused it to be condemned and the council could no longer use it as social housing. However, that made it ideal for students, and the fact that the rain came in and the windows no longer fitted in their frames was just a trivial detail in the otherwise salubrious and luxurious accommodation that we had been blessed with(!)
I had a mixture of pity for and fear of the locals. (I did get attacked once and the same was true for many students). So I decided to volunteer to help in some way. I had Wednesday afternoons off and went to work in the local 'Women's Refuge'. This building was at a secret location somewhere in Salford, and I wasn't to tell anyone because it may threaten the lives of the women inside (in particular I wasn't to tell any men because they were the scum of the earth).
Now, within the refuge, there were three types of people and I am going to caricature them, but I promise that almost all of the occupants fitted the caricatures remarkably well. The first group were the children, and my heart bled for them on a weekly basis. They had pretty much all been beaten up by their father-figure and some had been sexually abused as well. Those fifteen children were looked after by myself and a friend for a couple of hours each week and it was like descending into Hell. A third of the children were violent and we had to simply hold them all the time. If we let go they would immediately beat up another child. A third were attention seeking and would do things like squirt the paints all over the wall, or strip naked or poo in the sink. The last third were terrified, they would sit in the corner mute or crying, and I longed to comfort them, but generally had my hands full.
The second group (keep up!) were the mothers, and I had actually gone to work at the refuge because I understood how it was possible to get into bad relationships, and I wanted to help them. However, I often found myself furious with the mothers. Their children had literally rags to wear, often their kids stank and it was clear that the child had wet themselves and been left in the clothes all day. The kids ate 'value' baked beans on 'value' bread toast everyday. However, the mums had enough money to buy cigarettes and alcohol, and to go out to the local nightclubs, and then smuggle home men through the windows. (No male over the age of eleven was permitted inside the building, because, as I have already mentioned, men were the scum of the earth).
The final group, and the place where I am actually trying to get to with this story, were the women who were paid to run the refuge. There were about five of them and they were all lesbians. They drank out of rather amusing mugs with jokes about men on them, they were part of a lesbian community, and they hated men with a passion. Why? Well because they had all been in several very, very abusive relationships with men. They had been raped and assaulted, dehumanised and subjugated. They simply hated men, that was why (for them) they worked in that place, and that was why (for them) they were lesbians.
Often, in Christian circles, there is a suggestion that no one is really gay, they just need love and healing. And I guess, in the case of the lesbians I describe above, that is true. It would probably be better for them if they faced the multiple abuses, recovered and then perhaps they would actually be attracted to men. As ministers, we are far more likely to meet people who have become homosexual because of past agonies, than those for whom it is a natural choice. So if we look for evidence that homosexuality is dysfunction, we can find it quite quickly.
The other thing that people in Christian circles sometimes say is that homosexuality is simply a temptation, like any other, and if we give in then we sin. Again, I believe this is true for some, but not for most homosexual people. Sex addicts sometimes 'act out' in homosexual ways (or by flashing, or cross-dressing, or going with prostitutes), not because they are gay, but because their addiction drives them to compulsive habits that they themselves find repulsive. In these types of cases, I again think that the homosexuality is a dysfunction.
However, all this is a far cry from two people of the same sex enjoying a loving and faithful relationship. I think tarring these relationships with the same brush as dysfunctional ones is equivalent to saying that heterosexual sex is bad because sometimes men rape women. (Or indeed as bad as saying that religion is harmful because of fundamentalism).
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homosexuality,
Lesley's Blog,
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9 comments:
I don't personally believe that anyone is homosexual because of dysfunction anymore than anyone is heterosexual because of dysfunction. It is true that there are a small number of straight women who have opted for a same sex partner as a conscious choice for ideological reasons, but they are hugely outweighed by the number of gay people who are married because they felt their religious belief gave them no choice. So much for the effect of ideology.
There are gay people who express their sexuality in dysfunctional ways and there are straight people who express their sexuality in dysfunctional ways. Because of the pressures of prejudice,taboo and secrecy, there has perhaps been more dysfunctional gay behaviour; I just don't think this means dysfunction has caused homosexuality.
Excellent post Lesley. One of your best. But there are two issues here. One is the theology of lesbianism, but the other is the far more significant story about the way of life lived there by the people you encountered. That's worth it's own post, so I hope you'll return to it.
I don't see this particular lesbianism as unnatural, but as merely consequential. If cloning were common place, and a genetic disease killed off all many, wouldn't women still want relationships, and to hold someone, and sex? Adaptation would continue, though the sexual selection aspect of natural selection would have ceased.
But, the homosexuality isn't the big issue. This story says more about the adaptability of the human mind. But while theists debate the theological detail of whether this type of lesbianism might be okay, but this other type might not, I just want to say that there are many many complex human issues here that don't have a damned thing to do with what the Bible says, no matter how nuanced your reading of it. These are very real material problems, that are being lived out by very real material people with troubled human material brains, with a very pragmatic solution.
When we classify behaviours as dysfunctional I think we always have to keep in mind that virtually everything about our lives can be seen as being on a variable scale. While we might classify something as dysfunctional that is toward the other end of the scale, for any characteristic, for those at the other end it's normal, and we are the dysfunctional ones.
Indeed a good post.
1. Does it actually matter?
2. I firmly believe that we are born the way we are born. I do not in any way consider homosexuality to be an acquired state and to think it even for a moment would to render all such people as 'sick' and in need of remedy or repair. You describe an image of the 'butch dykes' [their self-styled name not mine] as victim homosexuals. I might suggest that they were victim heterosexuals who were tos fearful to live as they wishes. How many people do we hear about who have good marriages, kids and the whole shebang, then leave that family to take up with a person of the same gender? It happens, and (dare I say it), such couples have a tendency to be drawn to more catholic worship. Therefore I can say that I know a number of such examples.
Your post (excellent as it is) takes heterosexuality as the default correct and for obvious and right reasons. I would contend that we are not all built that way, and for women who may have been married into hetero marriages because they saw no alternative, were then abused, found their liberation - were liberated not just from abusive husbands but from a sexual identity that was imposed upon them.
There is also a danger in this post when you associate sexual dysfunction with homosexuality at all. Homosexuality is not a sexual dysfunction - being a flasher is.
As for temptation, this is as much the case as two teenagers experimenting. It happens and it is a part of growing into one's identity. It isn't wrong and Christians should withdraw from judgement in its direction.
Christians (and I sense partly that you do too, my dear friend) tend to work from the place that homosexuality is wrong. It is converted into a pastoral matter that requires a cause to determine a solution. There is therefore a Christian perspective that gayness can be solved or cured. It can't and it won't. Why? For the same reason that I can't and won't be cured of my brown eyes and silly ears!
Dear All
This isn't meant to be a post suggesting heterosexual relationships are the norm, nor that dysfunction only occurs in homosexual unions, nor to proffer an theological comment at all.
It is more to challenge those like Peter Ould (referenced in the post) who recognise that when they were healed their gayness went. Whilst I accept this is true for some, I think for others the most beautiful expression of their humanity in in a homosexual union..
Thanks Ron for the suggestion that I should say more stuff about this. It has awakened many memories and thoughts (many of them quite dark so don't tell Cloakey). Could you be more specific about what you feel should be explored further?
L
x
Hi David,
It matters to those that are discriminated against for their sexuality, whether the discrimination comes from secular or scriptural judgements about dysfunction.
Sexual selection, being a part of natural selection, and us being organisms that reproduce by sex, then heterosexuality has a strong biological bias. Evolutionarily it might be that natural selection also has cause engendered us with a bias against homosexuality - we can't avoid the obvious fact that some people find it repugnant.
We don't find it too difficult to make choices about how we behave. Those who are religious are making a statement to that effect, in their choice to (attempt) to be good.
Given the complexity and adaptability of the human mind it isn't beyond our capability to make choices in our sexual behaviour too.
If we are attempting to follow what we consider to be the best principles, such as the Golden Rule, least harm, etc., then the consensus is that we should accommodate variation as much as we can. It seems to me to cause less harm to quell any misgivings I might have about homosexuality - another person's innate or chosen sexual freedom outweighs my right to enforce my views on them. As it happens my views are quite liberal, so I don't find this difficult.
But some do find it difficult. Just as some people may be innately homosexual, some may well be innately homophobic. My only issue in the context of this post of Lesley's is that I don't think those feelings can be tackled if we facilitate the hiding of them behind religious beliefs.
"Homosexuality is not a sexual dysfunction - being a flasher is." - I agree, as long as we understand what is dysfunctional about flashing, and not to confuse the sexual nature of what's being flashed. It's not dysfunctional to walk about showing one's genitals on a nudist beach. In the street it can depend on what you're flashing.
I agree with you that homosexuality isn't something to be cured. Same applies for many human characteristics. Some behaviours are linked to very clear neurological damage or dysfunction, but many have been characterised as dysfunctional because they stray a little too far from the norm for comfort. The more we can learn from neuroscience and psychology the sooner we can figure out what needs fixing.
And for whose benefit do we fix behaviour - the person with the behaviour or the rest of us?
It might be construed that the more liberal of us are unfairly asking someone with innate homophobic feelings to be 'fixed' (or intolerant religious views to be 'fixed'). But I don't thinks that's the case. We can only ask that they don't use their feelings to discriminate against homosexuals.
Ron, I think we are all in agreement here..?
A third of the children were violent and we had to simply hold them all the time. If we let go they would immediately beat up another child. A third were attention seeking and would do things like squirt the paints all over the wall, or strip naked or poo in the sink. The last third were terrified, they would sit in the corner mute or crying...
Ah, the joys of being a steward at General Synod.
LOL!
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